Hi

I'm thinking about buying a second hand cruiser, built in 1972.  It's being sold by a brokerage firm and is described as having had 'professional epoxy treatment 3 years ago'.  Should I run for cover at this point, or might it be worth looking at further with a survey?  Is epoxy treatment a short or long term repair?  I'd appreciate anyone's views or suggestions as to what to look at in more detail.

Thanks

The words "professional epoxy treatment" actually don't mean a thing, it could vary from a few coats of epoxy poaint over the existing gel-coat to the removal by planimng of most of the hull below the waterline then re glassing filling faring etc!

Find out who did the work and talk to tjhem about what they did and why they did it!

The boat is from before the first oil crisis (when resins got so expensive they used cheaper ones and tended not to use enough) so it ought to be OK and if its survived 36 years its probably just fine,

You dont say what sort of boat, where it lives (fresh or salt water etc) these can have a big influence.

Get more info and you'll get some sensible advice from this forum!

Hi Lumpy

It is not surprising that a boat of this age will have had an epoxy treatment, and it should be nothing to be frightened of. If it is "professional" and was put on by an approved agent of one of the big paint maanufacturers, it should come with some form of guarantee. In general, the solventless epoxy treatments used these days are much more effective than the solvent-based, often DIY treatments widely used a few years ago.

If you are happy about the rest of the boat, go ahead and get a surveyor to have a look at it. I would always advise anybody buying a used boat to have a survey done. Not only does it provide some peace of mind, but the surveyor will normaly find something that enables you to haggle the price down a bit - more than the surveyor's fee, in our experience both as buyers and sellers!

One good thing about boats of this era is that because GRP technology was relatively new, they tended to be massively overbuilt, and remain fantastically strong!

Good luck with your purchase

Cathy

Having been epoxy coated does not necessarily mean that there was anything wrong with the boat, surveyers will often recommend this as a matter of course. If however there was a problem which made them coat her up, do not worry, with a boat of this age it is only to be expected.

With all but very recent boats it is not so much a matter of if a boat will soak up a bit of water or get a few blisters but when.

 As David says, what matters is how the job was done. Even if it was a quick once over, it probably doesn't matter as long as the price of the boat is right.

       Well, this surveyor won't recommend it as a matter of course! I'd say a fair few "preventive" schemes I've seen have failed prematurely. In fact there's something to be said for the dutch view-let it reach a reasonably advanced stage, don't worry about it, keep sailing in the meantime and then do it properly, if necessary with relaminating as well.

        The worst thing is to epoxy over the gelcoat just because it isn't blistered, in the hope that this will be a prophylactic against future pox. It will only be so if the underlying laminate is completely dry and contains no incipient but so far undetected blisters. It's a little like taking lots of expensive dietary supplements when you're perfectly healthy, then finding out they're bad for you....!

Gwil, I was not suggesting that so many surveyers are right to suggest epoxy treatment, only that many do.

I agree that a poor treatment can actually make matters worse. I once owned a Carter 33 which had had some blisters and the owner had her treated. A reputable yard found, after a light blasting, that the blisters were only in the antifoul (a light scraping here and there would have shown this!) They proceeded to epoxy straight away and the boat was back afloat within 2 weeks.

She had a problem then for years as the blasting had opened up some tiny voids and left the gelcoat thin in other places. we managed to sort it in the end and the only real down side was trying to keep a racing finish.

There was never any structural problem.

      I take your point Jonathan- I was thinking of all those poor owners over the years who've paid dearly (and often lost a season's sailing) thanks to such recommendations, occasionally too driving them into the hands of inexperienced blasters who can create more damage.

      What did you think of the Carter? I remember admiring one for sale, but sadly too expensive, in my younger days. Then there was the curious Luna-anyone had one?

A few years ago a friend bought a Beneteau 26 (or was it 25) that he got for a huge discount as it had a few large blisters (2-3 inches across) on the hull and the moisture meter said the boat was wet!

He had it booked in for a complete hull plane-off etc. I suggested we try it my way first, after a bit or persuading and the sight of the estimate for the work he agreed.

I ground out the blisters with the end of a belt sander (a lot more progressive and controllable than a grider) and washed down the hull.

3 months later we gave the ground out areas a couple of coats of epoxy resin to seal the exposed mat, built the hull back with a bit of quadra-directional woven rovings and epoxy , sanded (using a belt sander it only took 5 minutes) then filled with epoxy filler, faired it all up and antifouled her, you couldn't see where we had repaired her. After a winter ashore the hull was as dry as bone (without removing the antifouling).

7 years later he sold the boat, no blisters had appeared and she read dry on the surveyors meter (she was wintered ashore every winter). Not that I believe a word these meters say - they can only read the resistance of the material, which proves nothing!

Total time expended - less thgan 2 hours - if that, cost of materials - less than £20.

Moral is don't panic and just repair what you can see, if you've ever done any grp laminating these sorts of repairs are really simple to effect. Even if you haven't use Mr West's booklet and its all very straightforward.

We had a lot of fun with our Carter 33 Gwil. She was built like a brick outhouse and we cruised and raced (thrashed to within an inch of her life)  her for 14 years (3 times as long as we usually keep our boats.

She was very heavy on the helm to start with but we cured it by taking most of the skeg off and balancing the rudder wher the skeg had been.

The couple we sold her to loved her as well and kept her about 9 years.

Hi Lumpy. West Systems are the global leaders in epoxy treatments, and provide excellent instructional leaflets, DVDs etc for people wanting to use their products for DIY maintenance. See http://www.themainsail.com/news/article/mps/uan/1477 for more info.

Hope that helps!

Cathy