---"One boat capsized, one sunk, four dismasted, five damaged and needing a tow, 11 MOBs, five injuries including one person airlifted to hospital with a head injury (later reported out of danger) and five boats grounded."--- And out of 1875 boats!

Well if you consider the ammount of cars travelling along a motorway at any given time; that ammount of carnage sounds a bit like a major catastrophe to me!  

The big difference is that if you put 1875 cars racing around a circuit with a mix of cars ranging from Formula 1 cars down through modern hatchbacks down to 1955 Morris Minors, then I think you would have quite a few prangs on your hands! For this is what its about, a huge mix of boats, skill levels and boat preparation and most of all everyone having a great day!

How many sporting events have over 10,000 people  (and probably nearer to 15,000) competing. If you look at the London Marathon I wonder how many deaths there are each year (we never get told the casualty figures).

Hi Chris+ and David

I think you both know my views on our government's constant medalling with our lives.

I just can't help thinking that with that ammount of publicly known casualties; Nanny will aleady be scrutinising how more cotton wool can be applied to stop anyone from hurting themselves again.

Maybe one way in such an event is to have more powerful motor boats on hand so that casualties such as running aground or de-mastings etc can be dealt with without the authorities getting to know about it at all.

Cheers

Chas

One of the delights of sailing is the freedom of choice to make your own decisions and take responsibility for them.

The question of safety and casualties is a matter for the individuals....

Unfortunately thou Chris thats not the case thou is it? The responsibilty is passed to someone else when you need rescue.  Likewise the question of safety does not stop with the individual - the Skipper is responsible for the crew/passengers on his vessel and the safe navigation of it. Clearly the capabilities of some of the skippers wasn't suitable for this event.

I think Chas has the right idea - the event organisers should ensure that they provide sufficent rescue/safey boats. After all other sports events have to legally provide safety/first aid cover for competitors and spectators.

W.

Yep, I've got to agree with Wolfie.

The emergency services would only normally be called out to a sporting function in the case of an unforseen catostrophie. I also would have thought that if it was deemed necessary that things like ambulence services were required to be available on stand-by it would be financed by the organiser of the event.

As for things like breakdowns and damage; a motor racing event would be expected to have the means removing damaged cars from the track and recovering them without calling the police or the AA out.

So if you are going to take responsibility take full responsibility for considering everything that could (except of course for unforseen catastrophie) go wrong the providing contingiency to remedy it.

Cheers

Chas

Having recently been involved in the organising of the Felixstowe Regatta, I can assure everyone that the safety aspects of these sailing events are taken very seriously. There are various ISAF categories for safety equipment depending upon what the event consists of (Inshore/Offshore/ so many miles out etc etc etc). There are also huge resources and advice for Race Ciommitees to draw on from the RYa RORC and ISAF.

In "Round the Cans" racing it is usual to ensure that there are sufficient Ribs/Launches etc to be able render assistance, however no race committee could ever guarrantee to be able to rescue every boat at the same time, it is always made clear in Race Instructions that the safety of the boat and crew is the skippers responsibility.

The only logical way we could make every event completly safe would be to have a helicopter and a lifeboat following every competitor, every yacht to have a completely fire proof life-boat on board and to have full emergency operating theatre witin 5 minutes flying from each yacht.

This would clearly be absurd! So the reality is a trade-off and a compromise based upon experience and how much we expect people to be responsible for themselves.

The response to the Fasnet & Sydney Hobart disasters shows that yacht racing is quite capable of administering itself in a practical manner. It also showed that from time to time these things need to be looked at in the "light of experience".

But I come back to the main point, Its the Skipper's responsibility and if he isn't comfortable with the conditions or finds himself in situations he finds are stretching his experience/competence level, then he should pull out & go home or not take part in the first place, this of course requires a grown-up conversation on the boat with both the skipper thinking hard, but also permitting his crew to join in the decision making and to be comfortable enough to say NO. Appreciate that some boats are not run like this, but then I guess the numbers of those will be sef limiting as after a while they wont be able to get a crew.

Hi David

Why don't the racing clubs try to make freinds with some of the local motor boat users? I'm sure with the promise of a few gallons of diesel and a good pi55 up at the end you'd get more than a few volunteers to come out and help steward the event.

Cheers

Chas

Chas

You are absolutey right on that. Locally we do exactly that and are very grateful for the help we get from several pwereboat a diving clubs. And yes, we even cover the fuel costs. The local Haven Series offered to pay for my diesel as I used my boat as the commitee boat a couple of weekens ago.

It also helps stop the silly them & us nonsense about "stink pots"

That's good to hear David

Cooperation is the only way forward especially with the powers that be in Whitehall trying to crucify, control and restrict us all.

Cheers and all the best

Chas

In general a yacht skipper is responsible for the management of the vessel under his command and that includes the crew (if any).  Each adult crew member also has to make a personal decision about accepting the risk of sailing on any particular yacht as crew.  All the crew are responsible for their personal actions and have an duty of care for the others aboard. 

Things have changed dramatically in sailing over the years.  There are many more pleasure boats and more commercial shipping tonnage.   The trend toward lightweight beamy boats, powerful engines rather than maybe a tiny auxhiliary, gps, radios, epirb's etc. Yachtsmen years ago had less facility to call for help and knew they had to rely on their own resources to a greater extent and maybe had boats designed with that in mind. 

For racing dinghies it seems emminently reasonable for the organisers to arrange to provision of rescue boats to recover capsised crews and usually their boats, but of course, most of these these are boats, reliant on crew weight and that are likely to capsize when raced in challenging conditions. 

So if yachts are now more like large racing dinghies then maybe there is logic in having the same facility as rescue boats for them?   

On the other hand Chay Blythes Ocean Challenge boats were designed to be able to sail to windward in F10 and way out of reach of any immediate rescue so it wouldn't be very practical for them perhaps. 

As a competitor and finisher in the said race (507th) I would like to add my observations. Firstly my feeling and that of my crew was that the race was very well organised.

Without examining all the MOB's groundings, Maydays etc in detail one couldn’t begin to determine exactly the reason for so many. I suggest that many of the reasons were less to do with so many competitors and more to do with the rather windy conditions and that with any sport with so many taking part there is bound to be a number of accidents purely down to statistics. Overall the seamanship and quality of sailing I witnessed was far above that which you might witness on a normal day out sailing in the river Orwell for example and I believe there is no need to introduce any more safety precautions than we already have.

Have always had this nagging concern that when a singlehanded super racing yacht looses its swing keel in the middle of the Atlantic its The RAF Nimrods and their US equivalents plus coastguard services etc that end up coordinating a rescue! and whilst race organisers may well pay for this,would yachts be out there pushing the technological envelope if there was no possibility of a rescue attempt?

Sadly think this is also applicable to a non ocean event in that there are those who risk all knowing that if all else fails the RNLI et al will appear on the scene.

Phil

Hi Phil, 

I reckon the number that consciously 'risk all knowing that if all else fails the RNLI et al will appear', may be extremely small. 

If it wasn't for all those who both take part in such sporting activities afloat and who earn their living afloat, and who probably make contributions and pay subsciptions to the RNLI, then there may not be the funds to have this well equipped and widespread 'voluntary' organisation.

What then; boat licences and proven qualifications to raise the funds to have a dictatorial government organisation which underpays and underfunds?

There will always be those who do 'the impossible' and sail around the World and who cross oceans just 'because it is there'. With them, the boundaries of human exploits have been expanded and some of the equipment we use today has been developed. Probably some of that equipment which makes us hobby sailors more safe and able to go about our activity with greater ease. cheers, Scotty

Scotty, totally agree and by the way, look at the disgraceful way the Coastguard staff are treated/paid - they really do have my support - plus my amazed respect in the way in which they handle idiot radio checks and daft calls for assistance.

3 or 4 years ag I heard someone putting out a Mayday. Walton CG responded, it turned out that someone had run aground in the River Orwell just opposite the Suffolk Yacht Harbour - a quieter and more sedate river would be difficult to imagine. In the end the CG agreed to send the Harwich Lifeboat, whom I sincerely hope charged them handsomely for the tow off the (very soft) mud!

The CG managed to sound professional and good mannered the whole time - if ithad been me I wouldn't have been anywhere near so polite. (Sex & travel came to mind at the time I seem to recall).

I reckon the number that consciously 'risk all knowing that if all else fails the RNLI et al will appear', may be extremely small. 

Unfortunatetly I think its higher than you imagine... and it's certainly not limited to the sea. The 999 services are all abused by those who don't bother to cover their own risks as far as practical - lets call an ambulance because the GP is closed/lets call 999 to ask the police for directions/etc.

As for patience I recall a yacht passing 4 (YES 4!) maydays in Southampton water in the space of about 30 minutes - all for minor problems that might at a push have warranted a PAN call. Solent CG was extremely patient and polite, even when insisting or telling them that they WERE going to be escorted back to **** by the lifeboat.

W.

 Hi Wolfie,  re: 'the event organisers should ensure that they provide sufficent rescue/safey boats'.

I think things are as good as they could get at most sailing events.  I cannot speak for the general public though, but this thread was related to 'Round The Island' 

I cannot believe that the huge majority of those taking part in the 'Round The Island' fall into the category of those you are critical of.

There is perhaps one small addendum.   I'm beginning to feel that insurers and race organisers may soon force our hand with the need to have a minimum qualification for skippers of the equivalent of at least Day Skipper, before they will give cover on certain craft. Regardless of experience. 

This in itself may assist in improving safety, and make people realise their responsibilities. Insurers may also wish to have every crew member of racing craft have a minimum qualification.   

Where does common sense and a reasonable amount of experience and qualification end?

p.s. (If you are afloat on the Thames your craft requires a licence, but not the user) cheers Scotty

Its just I know people who race who seemed quite happy to push their boat until the mast breaks or return with chunks missing out of their bows.

As for the long haul racing,  boats such as those of the British Steel type were built to survive wheas in my opinion some of the cutting edge ocean racing yachts are built knowing that there can afford to be a degree of risk of structural failure  built into the design. If the waves are not too big etc. they will get away with it but if weather for eg.gets too extreme then structural failure can happen and most recently for example keels fall off.Then someone has to go and rescue the sailor-no problem if organisers provided their own ocean escorts.

Phil